Timothy Benton | Sep 17, 2018 | 0
Will There Ever Be Peace Between Israel And the Palestinians?
We have by now heard that President Trump is pushing a new Israeli/Palestinian peace initiative, how Abbas is saying he will not meet with the Trump team, and the issues that are coming out of this, Trump at this time has responded by freezing all funds earmarked for Palestinian aid. So where do things go from here, how did they get to this point, and can anything be done?
A. Lack of History
I have always heard if you are going to make a case that something is stolen, you have first to establish that you had ownership, sadly this doesn’t seem to be the case with the Palestinians, they make claims, and the world takes them at their word.
There is a slight problem though, when you ask for this proof, you get yelled at, have to listen to emotional pleas, are demanded to answer if you are trying to say there is no such thing as a Palestinian, then who is there, they have a history going back before Israel was in the land, but do they?
I don’t have space on this article but have written on this, did so with multiple columns. One named PALESTINIANS: WHAT IS FACT, WHAT IS FICTION delves into the historical claims, see if they match the historical writings, eyewitness accounts, and the archaeological evidence, to be very brief, there is nothing, if there is, I challenge anyone to bring evidence to the table with a historical writing prior to 1900 that mentions a sub-group of Arabs with their own unique culture and customs that self-identified as “Palestinians.”
I have heard the debates, have been involved with them, but to the person, anyone saying they can show this, if you look at the sources, there is nothing shown before this time, all you have are emotional appeals, this is not how facts work.
If this is too hard then what about a Census before 1900 that mentions a “Palestinian,” and they weren’t speaking about native-born Jews or a documented eyewitness account? If that is too hard, then show an archaeological find, the problem with this is to date there has never been anything, may be why the Gaza museum of Palestinian history is empty of historical artifacts, other then Jewish ones that they want to claim is theirs.
B. You Can’t Will Away Land You Stole
In the article DID ISRAEL STEAL THE ANCESTRAL HOME OF THE PALESTINIANS? PART 1 we deal with the question of if Israel stole this land. Due to the number of references and supporting evidence I had to write this in three parts, like the article challenging the historical claims of the “Palestinians” I had to write the article in three parts, but think that supporting evidence is more important then the rest of the story, you are showing evidence for your claim, something that seems to not be demanded today.
Briefly getting into this, if you want a much deeper analysis, then please click on the article above, you will find all the supporting evidence for what I am stating, how is it possible that if this land is stolen from the “Palestinians”, they have not always felt this way? In 1964 when the PLO or Palestinian Authority wrote their first charter they stated in article 24:
Article 24: This Organization does not exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or in the Himmah Area. Its activities will be on the national popular level in the liberational, organizational, political and financial fields.
What we saw in 1964 the Palestinian Authority say they have no claim to the West Bank nor Gaza, but that all changed in 1968, one has to ask, was a profound discovery found that changed this support? No, as I stated, there has NEVER been any archaeological find that supports the Palestinian historical narrative, so what was it? It turns out their historical claim did not depend on historical facts, instead by whom controlled the land, I will admit, I am very well acquainted with history and historical claims, I have never heard of such a thing before.
Further, one needs to look at how these nations acquired this land. In 1948 when Israel declared its rebirth as a nation, the Arabs responded by invading, said they were going to wipe out every Jew and let the sand run red with blood as they pushed them all into the sea, turns out they did not only not do this, they lost to a group of people who weren’t soldiers, rather civilians fighting for not only their life but the lives of their families.
In 1967 after Israel ran out the Egyptians from Gaza, who when they had invaded in 1948 had not only expelled every Jew who lived in Gaza, they also expelled every Jew that lived in their land, save a token few. In 1948 Egypt had 75,000 Jews, by 1968 they had less than a 1,000, today they have less than 20. In 1967 Israel expelled the Egyptians and took back control of Gaza, in 2005 after removing the settlers in Gaza (many whom were now kicked out twice), they pulled out of the land and gave the Arabs their self-rule. Sadly today we have seen three conflicts, over 10,000 rockets and mortars fired at Israel for daring to do something like this.
In Judea and Samaria, the Jordanians in 1948 did the same thing the Egyptians did but carried it even further. They not only expelled the Jews from the land, then destroyed their mosques, used gravestones from Jewish cemeteries, some that have stood there since the time of the Roman Empire, then used them for paving stones and urinals. They also blew up all but one synagogue, then prevented any Jew from visiting any holy site while they were in control of the area.
In 1967 Jordan was the only nation that first initiated conflict with Israel, Israel responded by kicking them out, the reason the Palestinian Authority today makes a claim is they say Jordan gave up its claim to them, but there is one slight problem here, Jordan had no legal nor historical right to the land, they had stolen and then occupied the land prior to annexing it illegally in 1950. One has to ask; if you steal a car, it is then repossessed by the owner, do you have a right to sign the title over to your cousin? We all know the answer to this; you have no more right then Jordan had a right to give away what they had stolen, it was never rightfully theirs to start with.
When Israel liberated the lands from occupiers who had no claim, they then left Judea and Samaria as unclaimed, due to duel claims on it, have tried again and again to work out a peace deal, each time when getting close to deal the Arab’s walked, once under Clinton Arafat walked with over 90% of what he asked for given to him.
But Do The Arabs And Jews Want A Deal?
I have heard over the years, if Israel will pull back to the 1967 Green Lines, there would be peace, but do the Arabs feel the same, what do they say. I have listened to this for years, what is their perspective, and what is the Jews.
To get an idea of how to find a solution, our leaders need to not only listen to what the leaders are telling us but what do the ordinary citizens think. While leaders may say one thing, what the common man thinks is what determines if a peaceful solution is possible or not.
I have watched this man in Israel, he does not go and put words in other’s mouths, but he asks what his viewers want to be answered, these video’s do much to enlighten one what is needed to bring peace or if it is even possible.
In this first video, the man goes out to Israeli’s, ask what they want to happen to bring about peace:
In this video you have the first man, when asked what it will take to bring peace, he says they have to figure out a way to set borders, but he has a problem with the Arabs attacked in 1948, went to war with Israel with the intent of kicking them out again in 1967, and once more in 1973, why would Israel agree to back to the borders like nothing happened, that blood was not spilt, but even then something has to be figured out.
The second man interviewed said they need peace, only through peaceful dialog will a solution be found. He did not agree with one state, instead, he felt that two states were needed, but they had to figure out a way to learn of one another, then peace may come.
The third man said the question was too difficult, so they went on to a fourth man living in one of the Settlements in the West Bank, asked him for a solution. He came up with an interesting idea, said education for both sides, let each side know the other, where they are coming from, then maybe a solution could be reached. In the end, he admitted there was a culture difference between the two sides, they came from two different perspectives, he does say one of the greatest problems comes down to Arab children are taught in school to hate Jews, the Jews are taught to hate the Arabs, this needs to change.
The fifth person said he thought there was no solution, but he thought the only thing that may work would be to set up two loose confederations, let the Arabs there rule themselves within the confines of the Israeli state, they are given a certain amount of autonomy, their courts, and settle it that way.
The sixth man said that Israel should pull out of all occupied territories, he thought this would bring peace. The last person said two countries, hopefully, in a hundred years they would be able to live in peace.
But what do the Arabs say, what is their goal, I think listening to them tells us the best story:
The first man interviewed said there would never be peace, if the Jews pull out from all the occupied lands, they will never stop fighting. He stated that even if Israel pulled back, they would want the settlements, the Arabs want none of this, sees no end to this conflict.
The second woman looks like she worked in a pharmacy, not sure if she was a Pharmacist or worker, she said the conflict would never end until Israel agrees to take all Arabs back, there will not be peace, she saw no end to this conflict.
The third set of men they talked to sad there would never be peace until the Arabs held all the land. Stated there was no country originally named Israel; there would never be peace so long as they did not possess all of the lands in both the Arab lands and the Israeli lands.
The fourth man said he thought there would be peace if the Israeli’s pulled out, but he did not know if the Arabs would accept that Arab refugee would be willing to accept they would not be able to return to Israel, only Arab controlled lands.
The fifth interview was with another set of men, they said if Israel pulled back behind the 67 borders there would be peace, they were even agreeable to all refugees returning to the Arab controlled lands only.
The sixth interview was with two women, they said there would only be peace if the Arabs got all the land, but then one woman not on camera said if the Jews pulled back to the 67 borders there would be peace. The seventh man said there would be peace if Israel pulled back to the 67 borders, but only if the refugees agreed to live in the new borders.
The seventh interview was with an Arab woman in a refugee camp; she said the only way there would be peace is if they got all the land back, there would be no Israel. The next interview said there would be peace if Israel pulled back to the 67 borders, and refugees returned to Arab lands, but it would only be a temporary peace. When asked to explain why a temporary, he refused to answer, his cousin in the background said they would have to take control of all lands, in other words no more Israel.
The ninth interview said there would be peace, but when pressed with the knowledge that Israel would not agree to allow all refugees into their lands, he said it would never work. But when pressed he said it might work, but only if all settlements are emptied, give that land to the refugees.
The tenth interview said they would demand no settlements or checkpoints, then peace, but all Jews would have to leave. The other said there would only be peace if no Jews lived in their lands.
Can A Deal Be Done?
For a two-state solution, I see no way this can be, but what can be done is look elsewhere from that has been looked at before. We have heard since Johnson how a two-state solution needs to be done, but nine administrations later, still nothing has been done regarding this other than Israel pulling back and then facing massive attacks when they do. Click on this to see what was put in past initiatives for a solution.
Something different is needed, and this is what we have seen from this administration, Trump refuses to conform to the rhetoric that has achieved nothing from the past. Although we have not seen the peace initiative he is offering, some of the details have been leaked.
What we have heard is Trump may offer to give to Area A to the Palestinians with Jordanian oversight of those area’s, one to give the Arabs in Area a chance to build an independent state, Gaza will remain as its separate state, and area’s B and C will remain with Israel, they will annex it with agreements made to work out secure borders so as to give continuous borders, and Jerusalem would fall under Israeli control with the Jordanians continuing to administer the temple mount.
This may be the most radical proposal yet, but is the only one that gives any type of ability for the path to take Israel out of the picture and allow a future possibility to set up a sovereign state for the Arabs, plus it separates Hamas from the Palestinian authority.
Jerusalem is off the table for the Arabs at this time, although there is room to negotiate for Arab control part of the old city, doubt much will come out of that. In the article THE PALESTINIAN CLAIM TO JERUSALEM, I investigate the Arab claim that Mohammad visited a site that did not exist until over 70 years after his death and the fact that no Arab nation has ever claimed any part of the city as their capital.
Do I think this has a chance of success? Not really, but as we have seen with North Korea, Trump will not go down with the usual rules of the old playbook, if he can get Jordan and the other Arabs behind this it may, but only after sufficient backlash is shown to allow the Arab leadership a chance to save face.